marinero: no soy marinero, soy capitan, soy capitan
alex: hey
marinero: what's shaking
alex: hola
marinero: if you have lag problems with bandwidth, you should probably turn off the sound
alex: thanx
alex: Marinero who are you
AD: it's me
AD: hey - are you still in athens?
alex: yep but for the moment
alex: i am leaving on sunday
AD: no more olympics, time to leave
AD: let the rest of the greeks sort out the debt, eh?
alex: trillions of dollars
AD: viva coca cola!
alex: let's change country
alex: both
AD: yes, but where? venezuela?
alex: islamabad
vero: enter messages here...
alex: not bad
alex: hey vero
AD: hi
alex: andy vocalog is very nice
vero: hola a todos
AD: well, as you say that i was having some problems with it
alex: such us
alex: ?
AD: i turned off the audio
alex: oh yes!
AD: no soy marinero, soy capitan, soy capitan
vero: no audio
vero: de un barco ingles?
alex: but it is different to have sound while you are chatting .even as an illusion
AD: i think it's better that way for now (no audio)
vero: yes
vero: i like the echo
AD: is fred going to join us?
vero: en plus, i have two ecos
alex: hahah
vero: yes, but he talk with his uncle in bretagne
AD: okay. well. let's see. i did some research about voice recorders.
vero: he can t let it, it seems too funny
AD: they cost about $150
vero: is it a service ?
AD: i think it would greatly simplify the project to have a good product
alex: I have one wich is making wav audio files it costs 100e
AD: no it's like an ipod
AD: wav is easy to translate
alex: yep and it could write 9 continuous hours and it is usb and it is great
AD: i can convert that with a free program
vero: yes, we have one also, but mp3, ithink...
AD: but does it record?
vero: yes
alex: let's record the world
vero: no, only 1GB
AD: well i guess i'm the only one who doesn't already have this
AD: you euros are so quick
alex: it is handy and it is also a hard disk
vero: yes
AD: but i have 1200x1024 flat screen monitor heh heh
alex: too victims
alex: me too
alex: on laptop
AD: it makes it very nice to use a computer again. my eyes need it.
alex: too victims
AD: but anyway... congrats on the Phd, vero
vero: thanks
vero: i feel better
AD: or should i chat Dr. Vero
vero: yes please :P
AD: too victims
alex: so i think that the idea of the recording is great and it changes the browsing experience
alex: vero what was you phd ?
alex: your
vero: i feel so
AD: the big question is of course how to ask questions, and what to ask
alex: what? who?
AD: or in any case, how to approach people
AD: yes, who, also
AD: who where what why
AD: but i think it is an interesting problem especially because in my media bubble
fred: i have a casio watch recording sound
alex: haha
vero: i was thinking in relation to social sculpture and topography graphics made with sound
alex: that sound promising
alex: great
AD: in my media bubble, nobody talks about the environment much
vero: sounds can create topography
AD: i wish stewart were here. this is his territory too
vero: yes
AD: he wants to work on artifical inteligence algorithms for grouping data
alex: i think that he will come late
AD: i am not sure how the images will relate to the sound
AD: but alex has said he would like to have images too
alex: i could see as underlying entities
vero: we know one proyet that was the opposite, the mountains create the sound
AD: i think it's interesting to get a lot of people involved
alex: it is not nesseccary to mix up the narration as in cinema
vero: but that people sound construct the mountains seems atractive
alex: i agree with andy
vero: yes i agree also
AD: have you all seen the "I'm sorry" site?
alex: yes
vero: no
fred: it is posible to obtain sounds by a specific mailing and it exist a datas base the online conferencies about environment
vero: i'm sorry
AD: Many hundreds of people contributed images of themselves
alex: sorry?
AD: holding signs that apologize for Bush winning
AD: yes
AD: me too
vero: it's nice
alex: the nice thing was that it was very spontaneous
AD: but the issue that intrigues me most is the relation between the scientific
AD: discourse, and the man on the street
AD: it seems to me that science is failing to pursuade enough people
alex: that is The problem
AD: but the corporate media never leave this safe zone of experts
AD: i am thinking of a social sculpture that has the feeling of a protest
alex: not only the practical sciences
AD: a massive grouping of people who are saying NO to this direction
vero: we protest all the time, may be we can construct something
alex: the protest idea is still very important
vero: something positive
AD: i think that the idea of it being a protest does not need to be stated directly
AD: that's why it is important to figure out how to ask people to say something
vero: we can protest with no or with yes, we don want or... what we want is...
alex: the social critic is a subject of serious critisism
alex: but with the right actions it could be a bomb
AD: yes, and the Seattle model (genoa) doesn't work anymore.
fred: the sitin idea is protesting
AD: i haven't forgotten about it.
AD: but i guess i feel like the screen saver isn't easy to sell to grant givers
AD: or the idea of it being protest, frankly
alex: i dont like the idea of protesting only - it needs a project behind
fred: creating human networks through excahnge of points of view
alex: the protesting could be the forum with something visual
AD: it could be too random if people recieve unrelated audio
alex: if the topic the headline is good nothing is random
AD: i think that audio recording is great because it can be anonymous
AD: it is a way to engage people in public space, but to get them to open up
vero: yes its anonimous but also personal
alex: it is a gentle way of participation
AD: i don't think people are self conscious about their voices in the same way as their faces
alex: but i could say that i like the written word and the image also
vero: we could visualize this sound
vero: like the image of the protest
fred: it is like the song of traks like a geografical way singed in Australian culture
vero: new code
stewart: enter messages here...
alex: heeeeey
AD: hola stewart,
vero: hola stewart
fred: hola titi
AD: no soy capitan, soy marinero, soy marinero
fred: los australianos estan 10 lineas mas harriba
stewart: hi ... just arrived home - i'll pick up with you as i see the threads progress -
AD: i don't understand fred, how are they more advanced?
AD: geographically?
vero: they sing plus fort
AD: because of alcohol?
alex: We are talking about the mixture the sound idea and the mixture with (maybe) visual elements
fred: the sing their roads when they travell to remember the geografy because the song is a geografical memory
vero: we sing and we create the line of the landscape
vero: with our sound
AD: okay - you are speaking of the australian aborigines
fred: no bebo mas cerzeza jamas
vero: yes,
AD: but they don't use computers, right?
fred: if we create nodes between audios we can create roads of thoughts all over the world
fred: no computer yes
vero: i was thinking in topography more than roads
AD: aside from a loose environmental / ecological theme, what content do you
stewart: ... 'songlines' the aborigines call them ~ non-linear maps of memory & landscape
AD: think would entice liberal funders?
alex: i could see this virtual topography with a collage of sound tranmitting to visual elements visual elements to sounds but i am concerned about the discource
vero: aborigin that entice
AD: perhaps, but it would help if we were collaborating with one or two of them
vero: bruce chatwin knows some of them :)
alex: it could be a nice opportunity
AD: so, how do we make lines/connections between ideas/discourses?
AD: this has NOT been our strong point as a group (wiki)
alex: wikikiki
AD: i feel that wiki is good for developing lines, but not connecting them
AD: and even then, with text, not audio
fred: sally is from new zealand and the only link i found with ozonewatcher was with an australian conferency
AD: is anyone interested in the triangular interface, or should it be abandoned?
alex: Which is sally?
vero: sally jane norman
alex: i do
alex: only me
alex: ok
AD: it's certainly not as sexy as fred's visualizations
alex: yes indeed
AD: i feel there may be a lag or a network problem
stewart: perhaps a simple interface representing nodes that are connected by lines drawn by site visitors ~ they make the associations in the same way the aborigines do when they meet and map their dreams and journeys for each other in the sand
fred: no problem with the aspect, it it the last point to clear
alex: yes but this is not reffering to a map but to a structure
AD: i'm doubtful that we will be able to rely on the anonymous public to provide semantic connections
alex: postmodern art
alex: or
vero: triangular interface is interesting always. it seems me. its a way to approach
AD: that is why i mentioned documentary film.
fred: the nodes could be present in various contexts, users can generate teh apropriate context by loading a map through the nodes
AD: the film maker chooses content and makes associations
alex: i think we can concantrate to the participation and we can achieve to have audience from different backgrounds
AD: and yet in the audio file there is a lot of freedom to determine one's message
fred: we can thing in a onion skin
stewart: is the audience then passive or active
AD: everything i've tried to do with the web that involved the public organizing lots of information has failed
alex: if we want to make it more specific we can have fix news data randomly distributed
stewart: - andy - why do you think ?
AD: i think that the audience is active, but we do not have to use every sound that is submitted
fred: is it posible to make bridges between mesenger users ?
vero: eso...
fred: people is there online not in a web site
alex: the audience has to be experimental with the data we can be the audience for the start
AD: i think people who listen to two or three MP3s can't help but make bridges
alex: what do you mean with bridges
alex: ?
AD: discourse connections between ideas expressed in the sound files
alex: soundhyperlink great!
stewart: connections -
AD: the MP3s can become music and noise, natural ambient audio, too
fred: if you define keywords to your entry it is posible
AD: this is the type of labor that i am saying has never worked well
AD: i think we need to do the work to categorize the data, or have a GOOD plan for getting it to work
stewart: ... andy & i have talked about ways that links can be made from meta info associated with media files -
alex: but it is not nessecary for the project to be created completely by the users
stewart: ... but shaould also not need alot of admin either
AD: we need to define what we will do and what will be done by the public
stewart: always the central undertermined question/answer
fred: if you have a first audio you can create a new branch from this audio or create a new separated line like audio trees
AD: i think that we can leave it to the public to provide meta-data about the sounds, but we should have a web-based administrative interface for approving, modifying, or rejecting new entries.
alex: we can have some developed ideas a structure like this and simpler forms of participation
AD: what fred is proposing sounds a lot like what the DMOZ (dmoz.org) open directory project has done
stewart: could form a nice indeterminate conversation fred, - one to the next
alex: i haven't seen it
AD: it's a directory of internet URLs
alex: ok
AD: but the public labor process is to organize the massive data
stewart: something less nebulous i would hope
AD: we could create a path, like the ones that fred visualized, based on key words in the meta-data associated with the MP3s
fred: one of our friends did a strange aplication, a little empty but interesting.
AD: or images
fred: he is leaving in london and is spanish, he did a chrsitmas tree users creates with their voice
AD: then, at a second order, there are degrees of relation to other entries, sort of like the google indexing algoritm
fred: he recorded through a web page the sounds and generated trees
AD: how did he get the recording to work? with flash?
fred: i believe with director :-(
AD: argh!!!!!
AD: there may be a way to do it with flash, but i don't think so
alex: propably
fred: it worked, people connected to the page and generated trees
fred: we can replant amazonian holes
AD: i would like to speak more practically about what can be done for eyebeam
AD: i know that alex, vero, and fred are busy this month
AD: and stewart is a persona non grata at eyebeam because of personal issues
alex: form 25th i would be ok
alex: from
vero: may be we can work not too much but...
fred: we can make a workshop a week end
stewart: glad you had kept that in mind andy !!!
AD: i think we should do something audio/visual
fred: like we do know but in two days to prepare materials
vero: yes
fred: we are profesional for DVD but we don't have bandwith
AD: actually, we have many images, the trick is to put them in a sensible form
alex: with the right text
AD: i can work on a text
stewart: & define the project with due clarity !!!!
vero: andy can record the voice,
alex: stewart?
vero: we sings well
stewart: ? sings terribly
alex: haha
alex: mee too
stewart: but has approaches in mind for the organizational algoritms !
fred: me toooooooooooo
AD: in the final work for this project, if we get funding, what do you each want to work on?
vero: ok alex the chorus
stewart: those algoritms !
AD: i get to be Antistrophe
AD: Alex can be Strophe
alex: image and back vocals
stewart: & fix the 'h' on my keyboard
alex: hahah
AD: i think it would be most effective in today's media environment if we did a lot of press work
fred: the record is the project presentation like a beetles disc with half apple
vero: but we need a card to make that
stewart: not known to be my forte - but will volunteer for some of that
AD: press kits, for example
alex: me too
AD: it would be useful to know what press kits look like for big news items now
fred: we do he online presentation of the project or offline document ?
alex: both
AD: well, i think everyone needs to contribute to acquiring MP3s
AD: in other words, we all need to be recording and uploading MP3s
alex: yes
fred: ok
vero: yes
AD: but the organization and visualization is still nebulous
alex: it would be funny
fred: we generate a items list for people?
AD: how do we define the theme for people who are being asked to contribute?
AD: i thought of an item list, yes
AD: but i thought we should let people choose one or two
vero: we can save the graffic of all this sound
AD: i don't think it needs to be like a statistical survey
alex: mixed media
AD: how can we save all the graffic of this sound?
vero: its like a cardiograma
fred: the keys made by foncuberta are mode of profiles of mountains
AD: that's nice
alex: yes
AD: i thought it would be nice to incorporate photographs of the contexts where people were found for recording
fred: we generate a mountains landscape
vero: ahhh
stewart: needs some poetic flavor to invite in the audience & hold their attention ... lists and datum are somewhat offputting ~ no ?
fred: if easch one build a part of the landscape by his sound profile
AD: but i don't want to be like the documentaries that are popular here for the environment.
stewart: could be more graphic than that - something like the songlines of the aborigines in the sand
AD: they use archived images of nature and it's like pornography
alex: that could result in adifferent kind of a map
AD: i agree with stewart. it would be best to retain a more cartographic feeling. something connected to scientific visualization
fred: we can build a circular line growing all over earth map
vero: sand-silicium
AD: unfortunately i need to go prepare for a class
AD: alex, can you copy the transcript when it's done?
alex: that's bad
alex: yes
stewart: like old maps with the cartographics and also pictures of things - in old maps it's boats and gad-like faces blowing winds - something like that appropriate to the context
alex: yes
alex: medieval maps
alex: you know well
fred: ultra sounds killed a lot of whales this days
AD: let's not forget the sense of 'ode' in terranode. it is a kind of lyric poetery
AD: poetry
stewart: exactly ... also arabic maps are cool because they use no pictures - against moslem doctrine for graven images - so alot of abstraction
fred: the use ultra sounds to search for oil
vero: oui
stewart: & submarines too
alex: a blend of mountain animated waveforms with images
stewart: with whales disguised as submarines
AD: what i mean is, we can think of the totality of sounds we collect as the the lyric
fred: it exist a study about whales sounds network based an the spy of submarines
stewart: indeed - that conversational thing that fred's idea suggested
AD: geographic distribution of sound files?
fred: they generate a network all over earth with ultra sounds
stewart: andy - literally
stewart: ?
AD: mapped on the earth
stewart: by content or suer source
stewart: user source ?
AD: i mean that we can think of the project as a collaborative poem in a sense
AD: without rhyming of course
stewart: ah - like the songlines
stewart: vero mention bruce chatwin - i think he has written about these things - no ?
AD: i was thinking spanish mapped to spain. that would create an alternative mapping
vero: yes
AD: different than the one made by metadata
vero: los trazos de la canci??n
AD: lyric poetry was not written much (in the english tradition) with actual musical orchestration
fred: the idea of the sound earth is making rolling all oaver the time is cool like sayed vero the other day about a poet called parant
stewart: ... i think those songlines have alot to do with navigation and resources in the environment - a means for communicating for survival - apropos
alex: this is the subjective mapping home country self society
AD: or at least, i think the musical accompaniment was fairly loose
vero: songlines
AD: i think it would be a mistake to make people self conscious about the musicality of their voice
vero: he said he have to be able to ear the earth sound when it turns
vero: we have...
stewart: they don't have to sing - just speak their thoughts - the song will be in the different voices perhaps
AD: i would like to find ways to encounter people for recordings where they have time to collect their thoughts
alex: it is going to a game approach with the musicality of the voice but not in the right direction
AD: intertexts
AD: written interpolations between audio files. multimedia.
stewart: ??
AD: another possible element
fred: it exist audio blogs where you can send a audio through your phone
AD: it would be great if we could get people to record through their phones
alex: live
stewart: hum - audio blogs - perhaps the material is already their to be found and appropriated
fred: yes
AD: maybe we could use an answering machine
stewart: phone calls cost money
AD: not if people call us.
stewart: costs us money
alex: i know a music project that has done something similar (not as a blog)
AD: we could propose it to eyebeam. they have $20,000
stewart: indeed, and then to verizon, your favorate company !
AD: i'm gonna blow them up!
stewart: not till they give us an 800 number !
fred: who are they ?
alex: where is the enemy
alex: ?
stewart: local phone company tyranny
alex: oooh
AD: okay, must go. bye bye
vero: may be he can give us a free number to people call us free
alex: bye
vero: bye
fred: bye
stewart: bye bye
vero: we are singing good bye andy
alex: that is possible but not in an international territory
alex: oooow
stewart: does exist - international free phone - also telephony over iP
alex: i have to go in 10 minutes too
stewart: sooner for me, my kid needs to be picked up from school - alex, you in athens or londini
fred: p2p radio ?
alex: i will copy the text for us to underline all the new staff
stewart: p2p radio ?
fred: peer2peer radio
alex: peer to peer?
stewart: yes - ham radio over the internet
fred: like limewire but for audio streaming
alex: i am in athens and i am leaving in 3 days
fred: greaaat !!
alex: and everything is unfinished as always
fred: have you found a place to land
fred: normal
alex: to the sea!!
alex: yes i found everything
vero: in a boat?
alex: in the ocean
alex: to be drown
stewart: would not be greek to drown at sea
alex: ok i will die from olympic overdose
fred: bonne nuit
alex: good night
vero: when we hear you again?
stewart: alex - i will call you tomorrow -
vero: buenas noches entonces,
alex: good night
stewart: 697... is mobile ? - i'll try 210 first - about 6 your time
stewart: buenas noches vero
alex: stewart yes 6
alex: it would be perfect
alex: ok hear from you tommorow
vero: la pr??xima vez hablamos en espa??ol :)
alex: what
vero: somos mayor??a!
stewart: actually i am reminding myself of an appointment - will be at 10 not 6 , ok also
alex: it is ok
alex: i hope to see you in london
alex: is it possible?
stewart: my spanish is worse than i sing - very bad from the bario
alex: and mine
stewart: - yes alex, will see you there in march
alex: great
stewart: with noah i think
alex: perfect anna will be very glad
stewart: noah also,
stewart: he's too clever
alex: i want to meet him
alex: he 2 or 3 years now
stewart: 3++
alex: ?wou can scroll the screen
stewart: doesn't want to on my box - will go now also, good night -
alex: i am good night
alex: bye